PADRE PIO NEVER CURSED - LET ALONE IN THE CONFESSIONAL - BUT HE DID USE CALCULATED INSULTS
It felt like a punch to my gut to hear that there may be a scene in the upcoming Padre Pio movie where Shia LaBeouf in his role as Padre Pio curses a woman out of the confessional. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted that Shia has become Catholic, and it is an occasion of great joy. I was, however, a bit troubled to hear Shia sounding quite sure that Pio cursed in the confessional when he was interviewed by Bishop Barron, but I thought this might be a misapprehension, not a description of a scene from the movie. I have not seen the movie, however, and I hope it is not the case that by "curse" they mean that Pio used foul language or blasphemed. Not a few people have been asking me, "Well, did Pio ever curse?" The answer is a simple no; Pio never cursed in the confessional and there is no record of him ever cursing in the entire 81 years of his life from his birth in 1887 to his death in 1968. As I will illustrate, when he was a little boy, his mama took pains to ensure her son never cursed. Later when he was an ordained priest, Pio did use colorful insults that he directed at certain penitents when they knelt before him, but there was always extremely good reason, in fact, on at least one occasion he shouted an insult to save a life.
In Southern Italy of the 1890s, the time when Pio was a young boy, cursing and blasphemy were - on occasion - a deplorable part of life, sometimes people prayed fervently and when their prayer went unanswered they blasphemed in public. Pio was then called "Franci" (Fran'chee). His mother, Giuseppa Forgione had a habit that when she heard a blasphemy or foul language, she dropped to her knees in her gleaming white dress and said aloud, "Blessed be God!" This act of reparation was a rebuke to the person who had cursed in her company and it could have won her enemies, but she did it anyway. She was never so strict a mother as when she was making sure her boy Franci did not curse and she solemnly instructed him to leave the presence of anyone who cursed or blasphemed regardless of who they were. Irrespective of human respect.
The Scocca family were the closest family friends that the Forgione's had, and both families were very interdependent. Franci's best buddy during childhood was Mercurio Scocca, and one day they were both shepherding their sheep, and when they got bored, they started a game of wrestling. While both boys tried to pin the other to the ground, Mercurio cursed, and instantly Franci leapt up and fled. This could have led to the Scocca family feeling insulted (had they been narcissistic they would have resented little Franci for being so upset at Mercurio for cursing), but instead it impressed upon young Mercurio that cursing and blaspheming were horrid sins.
Giuseppa was more disturbed by blasphemy and more severe with her children about it than any other wrong-doing. She felt it worse than criminality and she was easier on criminals than on blasphemers. Her little boy Franci was the child for whom cursing was a child.
When he was an ordained priest, Pio saw that the devil was close to those who blaspheme and curse - he knew this because he saw satan linger intently by someone who used profanity against God. This marries with the revelation given Sr Mary of Saint Peter who was shown that satan himself leads the souls who blaspheme. Taking Pio at his word, and assuming that he is portrayed as one who cursed in a movie, then this is an errant portrait of Pio as one under the sway of the demonic.
But while he never cursed, Pio could be combustible in the confessional. As a young priest, when he was newly famous and hearing confessions for 19 hours a day, he lamented to his spiritual director that he did lose control of his temper. These outbursts did humble the young Pio, however, because he felt his human weakness and thus had more empathy with sinners. But a moment of anger is altogether different to an occasion of cursing and/or blasphemy. For one thing, Pio did not mean to lose his temper and he was sorely sorry afterwards and contrite. More to the point, when Pio used cross words these were not blasphemies or curses. It is lamentable that Pio's angrily spoken reprimands could be thought the same as blasphemy or cursing.
There was a time when his anger was righteous - and he threw out a man who was plotting to murder his wife with the words - "Go away, go away! Go away! Don't you know that it's forbidden to kill somebody?" Other times Pio employed carefully crafted rebukes. There was the time he called an adulterer - a husband who was cheating on his wife - a "litterbug". This pointed to the filth of the man's sin when he was entertaining two women - his long-suffering wife at home and the other woman. This man had the reputation of holiness but his private life was so sordid that he was spoiling lives with the trash of his infidelity as well as giving woeful bad example to other husbands.
There was one intriguing occasion when Padre Pio shouted an insult at a most beloved disciple, Mary Pyle. One day, when Mary knelt before Pio to confess, he shouted so everyone could hear, "SCIAGURATA!" This means, "Wretched one", and yet it was so hard to fathom why Pio would offend dear Mary Pyle this way, and why he was so intent that the other women waiting to confess would hear him. Mary Pyle was born in Manhattan, New York and was a wealthy heiress who came to live by Padre Pio and gave away most of her inheritance to good causes, including building a seminary in Pio's hometown of Pietrelcina. But the time that Pio shouted an undeserved insult at her was in 1933. His "imprisonment" had just ended; that time of 2 years when he had been locked away, forbidden from hearing confessions and only allowed to say a private daily Mass that none of the faithful could attend. In my forthcoming book on Padre Pio I give an account of the clerics who were behind this persecution but at the time most unfortunately for Mary Pyle, she had come in for some unfair blame during the 2 year suppression of Pio's ministry, and some local women thought she had helped to cause Pio's persecution. She was also the object of much jealousy. Later, Pio explained to Mary why he had maligned her in front of the women who had unjustly blamed her, "Some of these women would have killed you, because of the terrible resentment of you that they had in their hearts."
This post was informed by own mystical encounters with Padre Pio, Ruffin's Padre Pio, The True Story, and The Golden Arrow which is available at the Spirit Daily bookstore and Frank M. Rega's Padre Pio and America which is available at Tan Books.
He was a charlatan.
ReplyDeleteHi there, If you are saying Pio's stigmata was self-mutilation, may I ask you something as to how he injured himself so often, and yet his hands were like a baby's when he died?
DeletePio had the visible, bleeding wounds of Christ for 50 years, and had he punctured himself, they would been horribly scarred. But the wounds started to heal before he died, and his hands looks like they had never had a scratch let alone serious injury. The stigmata were a mystical gift, and they were given and taken in a miraculous way that meant his hands sustained no evidence of ever being pierced, because they were never pierced by human hands but by Christ who allowed people to see His wounds on Pio for a time before He removed them without a trace...leaving Pio's fingerprints intact.
Criminals use acid on their hands to remove their fingerprints. Had Pio used this (which is claimed) his hands would have been ravaged, instead when he died, his hands looked beautiful.
Mary, congratulations on your truly Christian patience and tact, in handling someone who accuses St. Pio of being a charlatan. I would not do as well in dealing with someone who is either unthinking, or sincerely ignorant of the facts, or pushed by Satan who goes after Padre Pio devotees since he can no longer harass the Saint himself, or who is some pre-teen playing around on the Internet.
DeleteWhy do Catholics do this to our selves? A movie comes out that promotes the Catholic faith and Catholics themselves nitpick it apart. They did it to The Passion of the Christ, they did it to Father Stew and and now they are doing it to Padre Pio. Why? Why do we commit fratricidal attacks? Given that Shia Labeauf’s conversion was inspired by the Saint himself, I would say he is supporting this movie about himself. Why can’t you?
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, you sound defensive and it is wrong to say that pointing out Pio never cursed - which is what I did - amounts to a "fraticidal" attack. And it's not nitpicking because Pio is so very important a saint that that truth as to his true conduct informs the actions of others to a very large extent and those of us who chronicle his life feel it very much that we sin before God if we let a lie about him to stand when the truth is that which souls need to grow in grace.
DeleteShia's conversion was also nurtured and watered by the many good religious that we are blessed to have here in California. I knew them and they never curse. Had they cursed out Shia, like Pio is portrayed as doing, Shia's conversion would have been harmed.
Cursing someone is harming them, and Pio never did it. Pio is our spiritual father and we will defend his honor.
It was a lame movie.
DeleteGreat post Mary, It turns out you were correct even though you had not seen the movie, evidently the cinematic Pio does utter profanity in it. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteMary, it looks like you are correct, at least one review of the movie that I have read mentions that the cinematic St. Pio used profanity.
ReplyDeleteWas every word that the Saint spoke recorded? Would it be sinful to utter "hell" or "damn". How do we know he never used these words or something similar? It would not necessarily detract from his sanctity.
ReplyDeleteToo often hagiography makes saints into exceptions not examples to emulate.
Dear Father Khouri,
DeleteI'd venture to say that Pio's words from childhood to the grave were recorded well. Had he ever cursed this would have been such an exception that people would never have forgotten it.
It is not hagiography to clarify the truth - Pio never cursed.
If someone cursed you out of a confessional would you say they were less holy?
Depends on the situation and the intention of the person confessing.
DeleteTo use the Sacrament as a thing to be played with, as did a few, drew the ire of Pio.
And no, not everything the Saint uttered could be recorded.
A foul word does not undo a life of sanctity...and p!ease don't forget the Saint confessed regularly.
I have read many many accounts and letters about Padre Pio’s from himself and from others to him, and I recall clearly when once asked why some wondered why he got furious and loud at penitents and sinners, he simply stated he was a “passionate Italian.” As a passionate Italian myself and whose parents were born in Southern Italy who were that way themselves, I can 100% attest that southern Italians, and many other Italians I have met over the years are extremely loving kind people but can be so passionate with their love of others that sometimes it comes across completely misinterpreted as anger or hate. I can totally relate to Padre Pio’s passionate demeanor.
ReplyDeleteI have seen the clip. They have St. Pio saying the F-word to an obstinate penitent. I knew many contemporaries of St. Pio. I met Fr. Alesio, Fr Joseph Pius Martin, and was a close friend of Dorothy Guadiose who wrote, Prophet of the People. I went to San Giovanni in the 1980’s and met many of his contemporaries. I am no expert but I know he used snuff tobacco, liked beer, and as a close friend of so many I feel it would have been shared that he had a foul mouth. HE DID NOT! Certainly not the F-word. I am not picking at the movie! I saw another interview with Shia LaBeouf and Jon Bernthal and in this interview the F-words fly and he’s not speaking to a bishop anymore. If you do see it be ready for foul language all through. I think there is a belief that cussing is manly. IT IS NOT. How could Padre Pio give correction in the confessional if he was guilty of frequenting the same sin. I stand by the honor of our dear Saint. It was well known that when he did lose his temper he confessed and ask for pardon and counsel from his fellow friars. We would do well to make sure we imitate the good Padre in his heroic life of virtue.
ReplyDeleteSo you believe that every word uttered was remembered and recorded and somethings could not have be redacted? Okay.
DeleteFather, There is a hint of a mocking tone in your reply, and you are replying as though the commentator said that every word was remembered and recorded, which they did not, but Pio never cursed, Jesus's Crown of Thorns would not have sat on the head of a priest like Pio who had used his brain to formulate foul language.
DeleteForgive my seemingly mocking tone. We both love Padre Pio, me for his grouchy humanity, (which made him no less a saint), you for his heroic virtue, neither is in opposition to the other.
DeleteIt’s one thing to say that Pio was never recorded to have said a swear word in public. But to absolutely assure us that he never swore in private or in the confessional seems like overreach, especially when the scant records that we do have of things he said in the confessional include rash and angry insults. You might as well tell us that you also know for a fact that a swear word never even crossed his mind!
ReplyDeleteOf course we can't know every single thing Padre Pio said or did, but his confessors and spiritual directors have said that Padre Pio retained his baptismal innocence. God does not give the genuine stigmata and so many other spiritual gifts to just anyone, the recipient must always tends towards spiritual perfection.
DeleteFalse. Some saints were known to say some pretty nasty things. The Saint is no less a.saint if he did this.
DeleteFather Khouri, With all due respect, there is a gulf of a difference between saying nasty things and and swearing at someone. St Jerome is someone who offered some vituperative descriptions.
DeleteIf people, as did a number of folks, try to use the Sacrament to "test" or "challenge" Padre Pio's sincerity and the sacredness of the Sacrament I might throw someone out of the confessional too.
DeleteGod is not mocked.
How do we really know if Padre used a profanity. He might have confessed this and received the grace of forgiveness.
What is the source for the Saint's supposed outburst
Dear Father,
DeleteI invited Padre Pio to be with me and to tell me if he ever cursed. He came and told me that he had never cursed and gave an additional account of his time with Mercurio, so yes, I am certain that he never used profanity. Had he not told me himself, then I would have to say that he was never known to curse. There have been other times when Pio has come and I was not expecting him, as in the situation that I describe here where Pio told me a complex prayer request: https://thepathlesstaken7.blogspot.com/2022/09/when-padre-pio-put-shawl-of-incense.html
What he told me is consistent with everything that everyone who ever knew him said about him: he never cursed.
I'm glad you would throw someone out of the confessional who was mocking the sacrament.
Mary, I am the one who made the "Anonymous" post on 3 September 2022 at 02:57. My point isn't to be defensive but to point out that we Catholics can be our own worse enemies when it comes to supporting movies that promote the faith. This movie has the potential to draw many to the Catholic faith and Shia LaBeouf's conversion is on the first fruits of those conversions. It was Catholic bloggers who opposed great Catholic movies like "The Passion of the Christ", 'Father Stu". And now, you are down voting yet another Catholic movie without even seeing it. If this movie bears good fruit then why complain about it. What to see other Catholic movies from Hollywood in the future? Then support them when they come out!.
ReplyDeleteJoseph, I do not think Mary is downvoting the movie. She was pointing out an error and that is, in fact, a work of charity.
DeleteDear Joseph,
DeleteThank you so much for coming back and explaining your position in more depth. I thought and prayed about it carefully - actually I offered your intentions the last time I was at Traditional Latin Mass this week.
I respect that you are saying you don't want to be defensive, but you are defending the film's right to have a grave untruth in it, that distorts the public's perception of Pio's character. I'd like to clear this matter up because in my limited way I have a calling to portray Pio as accurately as possible, and believe I'm answerable to God on this.
Cursing is catching and you'll notice I've not blogged for a few days; I got so much abuse and was cursed out myself for having written this post that there is a worrying knee-jerk reaction when someone like me is like the Fool in Shakespeare's King Lear and points out misrepresentation.
Thank you for your polite discourse. Your support for Catholic cinema is inspiring.
Mary, all the nastiness tells the sad story of those who might believe but are not converted. May the Holy Name of Jesus be your refuge and shield!
DeleteThank you for recommending the use of the Holy Name when confronted with cursing.
DeleteMary, I mailed you an account titled the Canonization of Padre Pio which you will find on the internet under Aletia ( if I remember correctly; although I had emailed it to a different internet site it appeared on Aletia!) I mailed it to you at an address in London,UK separately. Beannacht De leat. tw
ReplyDeleteSorry, Mary the article was posted in Mystics of the Church :" Miracle stories in the life of St Padre Pio - Mystics of the Church." tw
ReplyDeleteFather Pio would never curse or use foul language; stern statements or advice, why not. Modern English is peppered with vulgarities which have recently morphed into the realm of common usage, so much so that what was indecent or profane 50 years ago
ReplyDeleteis now relished in the media. Such is the rot in the death pangs of western culture.
Etymology and semantics are seldom considered in commentary, conversation or literature. Much more serious though is the misuse or abuse of the Holy Name of Jesus Christ.
Beir Beannacht De .tw
It is utterly amazing how many people will defend a piece of colored celluloid and the sin of profanity instead of God's holy Church and His saints! Maybe if these apologists for the Hollyweird Babylon spent less time making false gods of their favorite actors and making excuses in sins (Psalm 140), and spent more time reading the Bible and going to confession, they'd realize that with the help of the one true God, nothing is impossible (Philippians 4:13, Luke 1:37), even controlling the smallest muscle in their body.
ReplyDeleteFrom my readings, it is Luigi Orlando who wrestled with Franci and cursed. Was there a similar episode with Mercurio Scocca?
ReplyDeleteDear Jose Maria,
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right. There was a similar incident with Luigi Orlando, who was younger and a little weaker in strength than Franci. Luigi recounted the event as, "One day, when he had pinned me down and continued to hold me, in the effort to throw him off I let slip a bad word, at which Francesco immediately jumped up and ran away. He couldn't bear bad language and never used even the slightest improper word himself." Mary F. Ingoldsby is my source for Luigi's childhood reminiscence. The difference is that the Orlando family were not as close to the Forgiones, excellent friends, yes, but I think it is more telling that young Franci jumped away from Mercurio because there was potential to give offense to him and by extension his family.
At any rate, it only shows how consistent Franci was and obedient to his mother's counsels. He definitely kept that in his heart throughout his earthly life.
DeleteI'll bet our saint is laughing at this ridiculous conversation. Time is being wasted that could be used for prayer, penance and good works.
ReplyDeleteNo one needs to defend the Saint, he is with God. "Defending his honor" could be better used by honoring him in following his example. May Padre Pio intercede for us!
Father, Let us see you practice what you preach then, and lead by example in take the time you consider "wasted" on discussion of Pio's speech and instead use it to pray, do penance and perform good works. Personally, I think we can do both.
DeleteI will, however, thank you for your comments that have not been laced with obscenity.
The penitent in the scene is Satan.
ReplyDeleteWe do not know if P. Pio ever cursed. There is no record. Regardless, he was very holy and yet a sinner. He as a sinner. He went to confession throughout his life. We know he went to confession at the end of his life.
The film shows P. Pio as a suffering saint.
Please be assured that Pio never cursed - even when Satan came into his confessional. This is a true account, and I wrote about it here: https://thepathlesstaken7.blogspot.com/2010/10/satan-pretended-to-confess-his-sins-to.html
DeleteWhen Satan did come into Pio's confessional, Pio asked him to say, "Long live Jesus, long live Mary", and the minute Pio uttered the Holy Names of Jesus and Mary, Satan disappeared.